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Tuesday, April 10, 2012

Mitt Romney's Mormon Problem


A Foretaste of Things to Come. Get used to this.
This is How the Left will Destroy Mitt Romney's Campaign.
Romney's Mormon Problem is that he doesn't act like one!
(National Journal) - Cardinal Timothy Dolan said Sunday that Republican front-runner Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith should not be an issue in the presidential campaign.

“There may be reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney as president of the United States,” Dolan said during an appearance on CBS’s Face the Nation. “That he’s a Mormon cannot be one of them.”

Dolan, who is archbishop of the New York diocese, later added: “I don’t think Catholics would have any problem voting for a Mormon at all...

read full story here
THE CATHOLIC KNIGHT: With the news today that Rick Santorum has pulled out of the 2012 presidential race, the nation's attention has now turned to Mitt Romney as the uncontested frontrunner and likely GOP nominee for president of the United States.

Mitt Romney as a Mormon Missionary
France, 1965
I have said many times that I have no problem with Mitt Romney because he's a Mormon.  My problem with Romney is that I don't believe he's a Mormon!  This is Romney's Mormon problem.  It's not that he's a Mormon, it's that I'm not convinced he actually is one.

You see I know Mormons.  I have Mormons in my extended family.  I work with Mormons, and I have Mormon friends.  Of all the people who have come to my door peddling their religion, I've never had a problem with the Mormons.  Now Jehovah's Witnesses are a different story.  It's not uncommon for them to yell at me after a brief conversation at my doorstep.  (It seems I have that effect on them.)  At which point I must remind them this is MY property and kindly ask them to leave now.  I also remind them to kick the dust off their shoes when they reach the end of the driveway, as is common JW practice.  As for Mormons on the other hand, this has never been the case.  They are kind, friendly, and very respectful of me, as well as mindful of the fact that they are standing on my property as guests.  So as far as actions matching the religion they are peddling, I must give credit where credit is due, acknowledging that at least on their missionary front, they practice what they preach.  Again, I've never known a Mormon to be unkind to me at work or in my personal life.

As far as politics are concerned, Mormons (good Mormons anyway) are generally conservative, not only on social issues but usually on fiscal matters as well.  Again, this is consistent with the image created by the religion.  My own Mormon family is very conservative, socially and fiscally, and would have nothing to do with the type of political compromise we have witnessed from the former governor of Massachusetts.   This is the beef I have with Mitt Romney.  When I look at his political record, it is not consistent with what I know of Mormonism.  Mitt Romney is to Mormonism what Ted Kennedy was to Catholicism, or what Bill Clinton was to the Southern Baptist Convention.  He is an inconsistent contradiction.  That's the problem I have with Mitt Romney.  It's not that he's a Mormon, it's that I'm not convinced he actually is one, at least not at heart anyway.

Now on to the issue of the word "Christian" itself.  In American culture the word "Christian" has two meanings.  The first is the more traditional meaning, and refers to the historical doctrinal understanding of Christianity being a Trinitarian faith.  This is how the Catholic Church understands the word "Christian" as well, as do most Protestants, especially Evangelical Fundamentalists.  Now in American culture there is a second meaning for the word "Christian" and that is a more generalised understanding as a person who follows the moral teachings of Jesus Christ whether he/she subscribes to traditional Christian theology or not.  In this latter, more liberal sense of the word Christian, one could easily call Mormons Christians, as well as Jehovah's Witnesses, and a host of other groups.  So before we start saying that Mitt Romney is not a Christian, we might first want to identify exactly what we mean by the word "Christian."  If by Christian we mean a Trinitarian, then yes, Mitt Romney is not a Christian.  If however, by Christian we mean somebody who generally follows the moral teachings of Jesus Christ then Mitt Romney could indeed be called a Christian.  So we must first get our terms straight.

Now there are those in the United States who are disturbed at the possibility of electing a non-Trinitarian (such as a Mormon) to the Whitehouse.  Well, let me put that one to rest.  First of all, if Romney actually won, he wouldn't be the first non-Trinitarian elected to the Whitehouse.  I would say the first non-Trinitarian elected to the presidency was none other than Thomas Jefferson (election of 1800), who also happened to be the author of the Declaration of Independence (America's founding document).  Jefferson was NOT a Trinitarian Christian.  He did not attend a church, nor did he worship Jesus Christ.  Thomas Jefferson was a Deist.  He rejected organised religion all together.  He believed in a God of Nature, who was revealed in nature itself.  He was followed by the second non-Trinitarian, Abraham Lincoln (election of 1860), who was known to be a follower of the occult.  Then there was Dwight D. Eisenhower who was elected to the presidency as a Jehovah's Witness (election of 1952), but later converted to the Presbyterian Church.  Then of course there is Barack H. Obama (election of 2008), who many people believe to be a closet Muslim, though he espouses to be a Trinitarian Christian of a very liberal theology.  I point all this out to make it clear that electing an espoused non-Trinitarian Mormon to the Whitehouse is not as monumental of an event as many might think. Electing non-Trinitarians has been done before, no less than three times, possibly four.  The office of the presidency has been held by non-Trinitarians before.

Next on the agenda is the issue of theology itself.  While it is categorically true that Mormons reject the Trinity, there are many who believe them to be polytheists because of their acceptance of many gods.  Again, this is inaccurate.  In the world of religion there are generally two classes of people -- monotheists and polytheists.  Polytheists are Pagans.  They believe in multiple gods, for various different things, and are rather indiscriminate about which ones they worship.  They may favour one in particular, or a few of their choosing, but they accept the existence of many and might often switch their devotion between deities as they see fit depending on their circumstances in life.  Monotheists believe in only one God and they reject the existence of any other god.  They may define the one true God in different ways.  Christians define him as a Trinity, Jews and Muslims do not.  All of them however, reject the notion of multiple gods.  However, there is a third class of religious people that is more rare, but nevertheless legitimate.  It is a third-way which was common in the ancient Semitic world and has been revived in recent times with the advent of Mormonism.  It is called henotheism.  A henotheist is a person who accepts the existence of many gods, but exclusively and militantly worships only one God in particular.  While accepting the existence of other gods, the henotheist believes that worship of any other god, besides the one he is sworn to, is idolatry.  So the henotheist accepts the theology of the polytheist while demanding the fidelity of a monotheist.  This is Mormonism.

So if you ask if Mitt Romney believes in multiple gods, the answer is "yes he does" but he only worships one God exclusively.  He believes that God to be "God the Father," who begot Jesus Christ.  Don't ask me to go any further than that because it gets kind of weird.  Nevertheless, it is inaccurate and unfair to characterise Mormons as polytheists and pagans, because by definition they are not.  I say this because as the general election campaigns get under way, I fully expect the Left-Wing extremists to come out attacking Mitt Romney's religion by attempting to pit the Christian Right against itself by calling Romney a Pagan.  This will cause the Evangelical Fundamentalists to turn on each other, as some will say he is a Pagan, while others will say it doesn't matter because we need "anybody but Obama."  Please, I hope my readers will be above this.  There is no need to fall into this trap.  Mitt Romney is a Mormon (or at least he says he is, even though he doesn't really act like it) and Mormons are Christians in the most generalised liberal sense in that they follow the moral teachings of Jesus Christ.  In a classical and historical sense, no, he is not a Christian, because he is a non-Trinitarian.  Does that matter when it comes to the office of the presidency?  No.  We've had non-Christians in there before.  We are electing a political president not a spiritual leader.

Now that being said, will The Catholic Knight vote for Mitt Romney?  Probably not.  I certainly won't vote for Barack Obama either.  My problems with Romney have to do with his character not his religion.  Had he actually been a better Mormon, and lived up to his faith while governor of Massachusetts, I would probably feel differently.

20 comments:

Aquinas said...

Sir Knight:
If you ever need someone to point out the problems of Mormonism, I'm your man.

The Catholic Knight said...

No need Aquinas, but thank you. I am well aware of the multi-faceted problems with Mormonism. There are so many it's hard to know where to begin, but suffice it to say, it is a man-made religion, and I look at it as a huge step backward in the religious development of Western Civilisation. Our spiritual ancestors (the ancient Semites) abandoned henotheism approximately 3,000 years ago, and for good reason. Why anyone would want to bring it back is beyond me. As you suggested however, we know this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Mormonism.

Ames said...

Unfortunately if Romney is the GOP candidate against Obama and people choose not to vote for him or Obama regardless, that is less votes Romney will need to beat Obama. I would like to see Obama outed for a myriad of reasons but the number one reason is I don't like where is is taken our country. Perhaps if Santorum were to join forces with Romney perhaps I will get to see Obama leave office after all.~Ames

The Catholic Knight said...

Ames, I've just placed a video at the top of the article. It is a DNC campaign ad against Romney and I placed it there because it is a foretaste of things to come. The Obama campaign will likely steer clear of negativity for as long as possible, appearing to "rise above it all," while the DNC will go into full attack mode. Unfortunately for the Republicans, their favourite son this year is his own worst enemy. The DNC is going to slaughter Romney with his own words. He will be pulverised politically, because he has provided so much material against himself that there is no way he can manoeuvre out of this. The only thing that will bring Republicans to the polls in November will be a universal hatred for Barack Obama, and I'm afraid that's not enough to win a presidential election. Obama will be re-elected in November. Nothing can stop that now. Sorry to burst the bubble, but I believe it's best to deal with reality. The Republicans will put up a good fight, but they can't win with this guy. He's the wrong man for the battle. This is going to be 1996 all over again. Get ready for Obama 2.0 come January. That's what we should be thinking about now and bracing ourselves for. Besides, even if by a fluke Romney actually won in November (a near impossible scenario), do you really know what you're getting? Watch the video above and ask yourself that question. Before the DNC started running these ads against Romney, the other Republican candidates were doing the same. Romney is such a flip-flopper that even fellow Republicans have no problem pointing that out.

Anonymous said...

People, not only in the USA, but the world need to come to the understanding that most of their leaders are not who they say they are.

Their allegiance is the the Luciferian Order. It is a World Conspiracy...it has infected all governments, and in turn, it has infected all countries and their cultures in some form or another.

This must all take place. Let it be of no surprise to anyone. But be vigilant!

This plague is not only isolated within the USA. It has spread and has manifested itself throughout the world for some time now. The Word will be fulfilled...in time.

Repent.

And may the Father have mercy on us all...in Christ Our Lord.

Confederate Papist said...

We Southerners and Catholics lose all three ways in this. But I can at least take comfort in the fact that a Romney regime would not (maybe) declare open war on the Roman Catholic Church, unlike the current (possibly permanent) tyrant that occupies the White House.

I agree with you TCK, Tyrant Obama gets re-elected and will be the permanent dictator of the USA, Inc.

Whites, Christians and Southerners will, over his reign, will be eliminated through indoctrination, breeding or other more extreme means.

Grant said...

The problem with this article judging Mitt Romneys record is it assumes he had absolute power to do whatever he wanted in Massachusetts which is so far from the truth it is not funny, the mark of a good politician is the ability to compromise and get things done and in this regard Mitt has proven himself as a great leader.

The accusation that the Mormon belief in God is confusing is also a misrepresentation. The Mormon belief is very simple - God is a Man , Jesus is a Man and the Holy Ghost has the Spirit of a Man - ALL totally separate beings and likewise also every Angel in heaven that receives the AtOneMent with god and receives all he has are also Gods with God the Father but Jesus Christ is ALWAYS the source,power and standard of this shared perfection.
This is very simple and makes sense because "we are men" and we are real.
The Trinity is actually very confusing to the point of being SELF CONTRADICTORY so no one can really build on it because it makes no sense and cannot be applied to reality and leaves men without any answers truth or desire to follow Christs example and become like him which is what he categorically stated we must do.
This is where you get the 2 types of Christians those who do nothing other then declare they are saved by DEFAULT in witch case basically anything goes so the Trinity does not need to make sense and works fine for them.
Then there are those who seek truth and real change , progression , perfection, daily repentance and apply themselves to the scriptures and understand them.

The statement that the Trinity is some great truth held by all christian religions is also a misrepresentation. In fact the biggest ARGUMENT in the early churches was between Arianism and Trinitarianism. The Trinity is a theory VOTED upon by men around 325AD at a council held by a Roman Emperor Tyrant and has nothing to do with Christ or His Apostles.

Jon said...

I'm not as pessimistic as you, KC. Obama will go down to Mittens/Ryan.

Btw, you actually neglected three more non-Trinitarian presidents. John Adams, John Quincy Adams, and William Howard Taft, were all Unitarians. And of course, despite his active membership in the Episcopal Church, George Washington, like Jefferson, may have been a Deist.

Jon said...

Sorry, Sir Knight. I meant "CK," not "KC" in my post (no need to post this one, but you may edit my mistake if you'd like).

Laura said...

I simply have to hope there is space for a write in candidate on the ballot, come November. I cannot in good conscience vote for either Romney or Obama. Santorum wasn't perfect, but he was better than these two! May the Lord help us all!

The Catholic Knight said...

Laura, a write in candidate is a losing proposition because you can't even send a clear protest vote that way. Look to the registered third parties for a clear protest vote. Keep your eye on the Constitution Party (CP) in particular. Since Ron Paul will likely drop out just before the GOP convention to spare his son from an untenable position of having to support his father against his party, many of Ron Paul's supporters will bolt to either the Constitution Party or the Libertarian Party. It all depends on who puts up the most credible candidate. Watch the CP. They have the best political platform. All they need do is select a good candidate this year, and they'll get a groundswell of support from dissaffected Evangelicals and Catholics fed up with the Republican Party.

Anonymous said...

I think the Catholic case against voting for a Mormon is perhaps a little stronger than you let on. One important omission from your analysis is the Mormon doctrine of exultation.

You mention that Mormons are henoists. You are correct. However, the god they worship was once a man like you and I. Such a state of exaltation (godhood) is the highest degree of external progress in Mormon theology.

Mormons, specifically Mormon men, wish to be God. Or, alternatively, they wish to be like god who is vaguely like our God. In doing so, the Mormon is equal to God and sovereign of God's jurisdiction. Mormons like to analogize to Theosis or Deification in the Catholic (eastern) tradition or perhaps Eucharistic theology to some extent. However, a keen intellect can clearly see the distinction between partaking in God's divinity and becoming equal to and apart from God's glory.

Simply put, Mormonism is the most dangerous variant of Christianity (defined in the most basic sociological terms). Mormonism's desire for men to obtain godhood is purely satanic. The doctrine of exultation is antithetical to Christ, which is to say "Anti-Christ".

As a Catholic, I cannot vote for a man who wishes to be God.


-Catholic Law Student

Confederate Papist said...

"As a Catholic, I cannot vote for a man who wishes to be God."

You're right about that CLS. They already tried that with Tyrant Obama, who thinks he's the messiah or sort of a god and we see how that's working.

TCK, I have doubts about the CP only because I have problems with the Constitution as crafted by Hamilton and his Federalist buddies. I much prefer the Articles of Confederation and/or the Confederate Constitution. I do realise you're talking about political parties and there are no such prominent parties that advocate for Southern Nationalism at this point, although there is great progress being made with SNN and other great sites (like yours).

Anonymous said...

I think you are all wrong about this election. This election is about throwing O out of office. Romney is not going to try and convert people to mormonism or their beliefs. I'm a Catholic and have no problem voting for a Mormon. Wake up folks...voting Constitution party or Libertarian will only take votes away from the GOP. If you refuse Romney then you ordain Barak Obama as the Messiah of Socialism. Is this what God wants?

The Catholic Knight said...

Well Anonymous, I understand your concern, but I'm afraid you may be missing the bigger picture.

First of all, I never said that Romney was going to convert America to Mormonism. I never even imagined such a thing. I'm not the least bit worried about that, and of all the Mormons in the world, Romney would be the worst evangelist ever, especially when one considers all his political flip-flopping. If I were a Mormon, I would be embarrassed and ashamed of him. Sort of like how I feel as a Catholic about Ted Kennedy.

Second, I'm not sure this election is really about throwing Obama out of office. I'm sure it is for some people, but you have to understand that when it comes to POLICY, Mitt Romney basically IS Barack Obama. We ASSUME Romney will not abuse the HHS department as Obama has, by attacking Catholic institutions with it, but we have no way of knowing that for sure. It is just an assumption on our part, and a fairly generous assumption at that. Believe me, nobody wants to make Obama pay for this (politically) more than I do, but I'm not so sure that is God's plan right now. I don't see Obama as the embodiment of evil here. I see him as God's tool of chastisement upon the U.S. Catholic bishops for their failure to discipline the faithful. Notice how Obama uses cafeteria Catholics to do his dirty work against the Church? HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, is one such cafeteria Catholic, directly persecuting the U.S. Bishops with the threat of imprisonment if they fail to comply with the new HHS mandate. This may be Satanic on the part of the president to do it this way, but it is a bitter irony when you look at it from the point of view of the bishops. Here one of their own flock, whom they have consistently failed to discipline, is now coming after them with nothing short of political persecution. It's like the spoiled child, who is never spanked, eventually coming back to beat his parents. Who's fault is that? Is it the child's fault? Or is it the parents' fault? Or is it a little of both? The bishops are now reaping what they have sown. Naturally I support them through their suffering, and stand with them against this injustice, but at the same time I am forced to reckon with the blunt realisation that they at least in part brought this upon themselves. Is this not divine justice? Is this not the hand of God chastising his own shepherds? I weep for them, but I don't presume to have the power to stop it. If it is God's will that the chastisement shall cease, then Obama will lose power to use the HHS this way, regardless if he loses political office or not. The Supreme Court to take this power away from him overnight.

Third, once we eliminate the issue of the HHS mandate, and we compare Obama to Romney, what is the real difference here? In what way has Romney ever diverted away from anything Obama has done? Where is the contrast?

Fourth, though religion shouldn't matter, it apparently does anyway, and that being said, how is Romney anymore Christian than Obama? Both claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, but only one has held membership in a Church that teaches the Trinitarian faith, and that one is NOT Mitt Romney. I'm just saying. Call him a Muslim if you like, and he may have been one when he was a child, but he has denied it as an adult. No Muslim can deny the Islamic faith. To do so is damnation upon his own soul. He may have been a Muslim as a child, but he isn't anymore. Frankly, I don't know what he is, but I dare say is a closer to Christian (in a classical sense) then Mitt Romney ever was. Painful as that may be to hear, it is the truth, and nobody can deny it.

Grant said...

Romney has openly declared the Obama Government as Anti-Religious, to say he is no different to Obama is just ignorance.
The Flip Flopping thing is a standard political ploy without good enough examples.

The Trinity thing is absurd, all Christians have many different Doctrines. Just Google "Trinity Confusion" and see if you can find any end to the pages.
The Mormons are an Orthodox Christian religion with a very high level of teaching on the Bible from Adam and Eve and up, Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the saviour of the Universe not just this world, and Jesus Christ is elevated to the highest level imaginable.

You judge a religion on its fruits not on the fact it does not conform to your particular dogma.
Mormons stand against Abortion, and Homosexuality and they do not have sex before they are married, all Mormons serve in there church without paid priesthood, nor do they drink alcohol, (something that has spared thousands of families from domestic violence I am sure) The Trinity focus is a typical out of context argument. Every Mormon prays daily in the name of Jesus Christ. Go to lds.org and watch the homepage Video on Jesus Christ.

Romney is without a doubt a man of integrity and is also a fantastic businessman I feel sorry for the whole world if he doesn't become President.
Maybe the USA deserves Democratic presidents like Clinton who commit adultery in the Oval Office, I am sure Obama with his smug attitude will remove even more freedoms from the Constitution on his next round. Thanks to Bush's bad example America voted in the worse President in history, Obama will destroy the Country if he does not go. Without Romney there also will be no stopping the millions of Latino's who most definitely are coming to own the country so start learning Spanish.

StevieD said...

@Grant, Mormons are NOT "against abortion" in all or even most cases. They regard it as unfortunate but sometimes necessary. There position is quite liberal.

Anonymous said...

@Grant. Yes, many people, including Mormons, are confused about the trinity. If you seek clarity on the trinity, I suggest starting with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. There are ways to research Catholic Doctrine that have nothing to do with punching two words of a leading phrase into the Google bar. Type "Mormon Confusion" in the Google bar, I guarantee you will find some absurdities.

Despite your protestations, the trinity is relevant to this discussion. Also relevant is Mormon Chistology. Mormon's may have their own orthodoxy but it is not Christian orthodoxy. The very term Mormon Orthodoxy is practically an oxymoron.

Why is are these issues relevant? Read through the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrines and Covenants. They claim God was once a man. The kicker? We too can become a god. Mormons will debate the meaning of these early phrases in Mormonism but their wide interpretation is clear. Mormon, especially Mormon men, seek to be gods - on par with God. One can almost hear Satan whispering "Non Servian."

Besides the obvious theological implications, the notion that a man wished to be God and president is problematic in terms of political theory. Moses was subject to the law. The Code of Hammurabi said that the Kings made the law and were not subject to the law. That is to say, the Jews , unlike their despot pagan neighbors, recognized Divine law and Natural law. They acknowledged a law superseding their human rules.

The obvious counter to my assertions is that Mormons do pray to Jesus Christ. Therefore, they at least surrender, albeit temporarily, to a superseding authority. While this may be true, I am highly suspicious of a man who wishes to be God and who thinks his earthly sojourn will aid him in this quest.

-Catholic Law Student

Donna Leone said...

CK,

I agree with Anonymous - this is not about Romney's faith and what he may or may not believe... It's about getting Obama out of office!!! And if you vote for someone other than Romney, you are actually helping Obama to get re-elected.

Take a look at all 44 presidents. With the exception of Kennedy, NONE of them were Catholic. God blessed our nation by giving us great leaders... who weren't Catholic! Kennedy, the only Catholic, was a womanizer and a so-so president.

We need to get Obama out. Vote Romney!!!! Or you can only blame yourselves if you hand your vote over to a 3rd party, taking a chunk of the votes away. Even Ron Paul knows that running independently would spell disaster for this country. Don't do it. Listen to Cardinal Dolan!!

Father Frank said...

I suppose I'll have to vote for Mittens, but I'd much rather have seen Santorum as president and Romney as the first US Ambassador to Kolob*.

*Look it up!